A Bright Blog Interview - Samantha Stein

Samantha Stein - Author and Blogger
Founder and Director of Camp Quest UK. 

Started in Kentucky in 1996, Camp Quest was the brainchild of Edwin and Helen Kagin of the Free Inquiry Group of Greater Cincinnati and Kentucky.  It was envisioned as an alternative to the exclusionary Boy Scouts of America, who do not allow atheists as members. Despite humble beginnings and discrimination from local religious groups, Camp Quest has grown to include affiliates in several U.S. states, Canada, Ireland, and the United Kingdom.

As part of an ongoing series of profiles on 'inspiring rationalist women,' combatting the stereotype of atheism as a male movement, I recently had the pleasure of interviewing Samantha Stein about Camp Quest, atheism in Great Britain, and why children are particularly vulnerable to religious indoctrination.



ABB: Thank you Samantha for talking to A Bright Blog. Could you tell us a bit about your personal experience of atheism - how you came to be an atheist, and what ideas have informed your thinking on non-belief?

SS: I've been an atheist, really for as long as I can remember. My parents raised me without any reference to religion, although I attended some family events at synagogues and churches. I think the only place where I was exposed to religion was school. You might think it odd that non-religious parents would send their child to a religious school, but in the UK 1 in 3 state schools is a faith school, and a very large amount of private schools affiliate with a religion. So my parents looked to send me to a good school, without thought to the religious aspect of it.

Now, religious schools in the UK are a lot more watered down than I imagine they would be in the US. In morning assembly (in primary school), we sang hymns and said a prayer, and some days there was a reading. However, once I went onto secondary school, the school had a dedicated chapel on campus, and it was then that I began to start resenting at first the school, then Christianity, and eventually all religions. (I've just checked the school website, and apparently "Developing the spiritual life is central to what it means to be a well educated person". Natch.)

I wouldn't say that my atheism was a reaction to religious exposure. I think I have always found it difficult to believe in a god, and the many attempts to "church" me throughout my school years just left me baffled. The most upsetting thing about this was that whenever I awkwardly tried to express my non-religious ideas, or complained about having to go to chapel everyday, the teachers acted like this made me a bad person. If I had been a Muslim or a Jew, they would have bent over backwards to incorporate my religious beliefs, but a student with no religion? Those religious beliefs afford no respect.

ABB: I find it surprising that Great Britain, commonly thought to be highly secularized, would have such a religious school system. How would you characterize the atheism of Great Britain when contrasted with its counterpart in the United States?

SS: As far as atheism more generally goes, I think the main difference with atheism in the United Kingdom and in America is that many people within the atheist movement over here are 2nd (or more) generation atheists, whereas I think many people in the US have just come to that conclusion alone, and in their adult life. Compare a life-long atheist and a brand new atheist, and I think those differences you will see exaggerated within the various movements. US atheists have a lot of motivation, and the struggles we face over here are apathy in the face of religious power. However, our religious power is institutionalized, and your religious power is within the hearts and minds of the public. So there are different battles to be fought, and people coming from different starting points. 

ABB: Is atheism a male movement?

SS: I don't think it is a male movement, but there is certainly a majority of men in the movement on both sides of the Atlantic. It is a well documented phenomenon that females tend to be more religious and more religiously observant than men. So I suppose it would make sense that men tend to be more atheistic than women. I don't believe this has much to do with our biology, and everything to do with environment. Young girls are taught to play nicely, be caring, and not ask too many questions. Boys are encouraged to learn about science, adults turn a blind eye or expect them to be rowdy, and an inquiring mind is seen as a bonus. As long as we bring our daughters up to value conformity to the extent that I think they do, they will be unlikely to embrace atheism in the same way that men do.

ABB: Camp Quest is a remarkable idea. I'm curious as to how you became involved, and what sort of programs and activities take place in a typical camp session.

SS: Well, the story goes, I was looking for something to fill my university vacation in 2007. I had recently read The God Delusion, and read a footnote about Camp Quest. I contacted CQ Michigan as it fit in with my availability, and went over there as a camp counselor. I had such an amazing time over there, met the fantastic children (and the inspirational counselors), that when it was suggested that I start one in the UK, I was very tempted, and in 2009 we held our first session.

At Camp Quest UK (I speak for the UK only because I know the programmes differ in the North American camps), the children take part in a mixture of physical and mental activities. They have the regular summer camp fun in the mornings - like zip wire, canoeing, archery, then in the afternoon we settle down into the thinking activities. These vary depending on the theme of the year. This year, our theme was "The Scientific Method" and so our afternoon sessions were based around that. Previous themes have included "The Mind" and "Evolution."

ABB: Could you give us an idea of how Camp Quest gets kids "passionate about science?" 

SS: I think the main way we try to get kids passionate about science is by taking science out of a school environment. I think that the syllabus in most schools totally kills science, when it should be taught as an amazing discovery, accessible to anyone. Instead, children are given the method to an experiment done by countless generations of schoolchildren, asked to collect data and draw a graph. There is no emphasis on why they are running the experiment a certain way (i.e. what makes science "good or "bad") or indeed, what the context for this experiment is in the first place. They are just told to copy, collect results and draw a conclusion, of which there is a "right" or "wrong" answer. When the children realise that when you are practising science, there isn't a right and wrong answer - and actually YOU have to decided what is true or false, that's when they begin to understand the collaborative and imaginative nature of science.

ABB: Richard Dawkins, you may know, has discussed extensively the powerful influence of the religious meme - on children specifically. First of all, do you agree with Dawkins that children are especially vulnerable to religious thinking? And how does Camp Quest help "immunize" participants from the omnipresent religious virus?

I think children are exceptionally vulnerable to new ideas, and this is what makes them such fast learners. But yes, I do believe religion has a particular hold on children, through using songs, poems, artwork, stories, religion which can vividly capture a child's imagination. As I believe Dawkins has said, from an evolutionary standpoint, it is in a child's best interests to be credulous, to run away from the river when his or her mother says that a crocodile is coming (this is stated in Chapter 9 of The God Delusion, titled "Childhood, Abuse And The Escape From Religion" and in 1998's "Unweaving The Rainbow" - Ed.)

I'm not sure that Camp Quest really acts as a vaccine for religion per se. Remember, most children coming to camp are already being raised in non-religious households, and your parents seem to have the strongest deciding factor in determining how you end up (It is estimated that 5/6 people stay with the religion/non-religion they were brought up in). However, I think there are good reasons for teaching science and critical thinking - just because you are an atheist doesn't mean you can't have irrational beliefs about homeopathy, vaccinations or the "truth" about 9/11. There are irrational beliefs all around us, not just about religion, and people looking to take advantage of the human brain's propensity to see patterns where there are none. If anything, we are training children to think critically, which we can only hope they apply to all aspects of the world around them.

ABB: Tell us, if you could, about a rationalist or atheist woman who inspires you.

Would Ayaan Hirsi Ali be too obvious an answer? After I read Infidel, I lent the book to all the females I know - my mum, her friends, my Christian friends, and just about everyone found it inspiring. But really, there are so many to choose from.

ABB: How would you encourage a young woman (or any young person) becoming aware of themselves as an atheist to "come out" proudly? This issue is of great important in the United States, where many young atheists face bullying from peers and even adults for being openly atheist.

I wouldn't like to give advice to people "coming out" as atheist - because I've never been in the situation myself, and have never been surrounded by a majority of Christians. I suppose I would just say that people never react how you think they will, and that you need to explain yourself differently depending on who you are around. For example, with your very religious grandmother, perhaps you would point out that you do good deeds in the community, and are committed to making the world a better place (i.e. emphasise humanist aspect of your beliefs). With your friends, maybe point out that they wouldn't be offended if their friend was a Hindu, or a Muslim, so why be upset with an atheist? I tend to favour the "softly softly catchy monkey" approach, but this may not work for everyone, or in every situation.

I would say, however, that things are getting a lot better - and fast. Think of where the United States was ten years ago, with regard to atheists. Change doesn't take long.

ABB: Thank you Samantha. It's been a pleasure chatting with you.

Thanks! I'm on Twitter as @Samantha_Stein - follow me to receive updates about my upcoming e-book!

More information about Camp Quest and Samantha can be found on her blog http://samanthastein.wordpress.com/. (Do have a look at the delightful gluten-free recipes there, as well.)


NOTE: This article was updated on 9-21-11 to correctly reflect the history of Camp Quest. The earlier version inaccurately stated that Camp Quest was a product of the Council For Secular Humanism.